A Place 4 or Place 10 bet wins when the selected number rolls before 7. Each number has three dice combinations; 7 has six. The fair profit would therefore be 2 to 1, but the common place-bet payout is only 9 to 5. That reduction creates a 6.67% house edge per completed decision.
The 4 and 10 are the most expensive standard place bets. A buy bet on the same number can be cheaper, but only after you inspect the commission amount, when it is collected, and how the casino rounds it.
Why 4 and 10 are called edge numbers
Two dice create 36 equally likely ordered combinations.
The 4 can appear as:
- 1–3;
- 2–2;
- 3–1.
The 10 can appear as:
- 4–6;
- 5–5;
- 6–4.
The 7 has six combinations. Once a Place 4 or Place 10 is active, all other totals are temporary non-decisions. The meaningful race is therefore:
| Result | Combinations | Probability among resolving rolls |
|---|---|---|
| Selected 4 or 10 | 3 | (3/9=1/3) |
| 7 | 6 | (6/9=2/3) |
True odds are 2 to 1 against the number winning. A fair $10 wager would earn $20 profit. The standard place payout earns $18.
Deriving the 6.67% edge
Let one unit equal $5, the normal payment unit for Place 4 and Place 10. A winning five-unit? No: one $5 wager earns $9 profit, while a loss costs $5.
Expected value per completed decision is:
[ EV=\left(\frac{3}{9}\times9\right)-\left(\frac{6}{9}\times5\right) =3-3.3333=-0.3333 ]
The expected loss is 33.33 cents per $5 initially wagered:
[ HE=\frac{0.3333}{5}=6.6667% ]
The same result applies at every correctly scaled stake:
| Place amount | Win profit at 9:5 | Fair profit at 2:1 | Expected loss per decision |
|---|---|---|---|
| $5 | $9 | $10 | $0.33 |
| $10 | $18 | $20 | $0.67 |
| $25 | $45 | $50 | $1.67 |
| $50 | $90 | $100 | $3.33 |
The missing payout is not a fee collected separately. It is built into every win.
Per decision and per roll are not the same metric
A place bet can remain unresolved through several rolls. On any individual roll:
- selected 4 or 10 wins with probability (3/36);
- 7 loses with probability (6/36);
- the other 27 combinations do nothing to the wager.
For a $10 Place 4:
[ EV_{roll}=\left(\frac{3}{36}\times18\right)-\left(\frac{6}{36}\times10\right) =-$0.1667 ]
That is an expected loss of about 16.67 cents for each roll on which the wager is working. The probability of resolution on a roll is (9/36=25%), so the average number of working rolls to resolution is four. Four times 16.67 cents gives the same 66.67-cent expected loss per completed $10 decision.
This distinction matters when comparing bets with different resolution speeds. House edge per decision prices the contract. Expected loss per roll helps estimate session cost.
How the wager is booked
Place bets are normally handled by the dealer rather than placed directly by the player in the numbered box. A clean sequence is:
- State the number and amount: “Place the 4 for ten.”
- Put the chips in the Come area within the dealer’s reach rather than throwing them into the box-number layout.
- Wait for the dealer to repeat or acknowledge the wager.
- The dealer positions the chips in the table’s player-identification order.
- Confirm whether the bet is working on the come-out roll.
Place 4 and 10 amounts are commonly made in multiples of $5 because 9-to-5 pays cleanly. A casino may accept another amount and round according to its approved rules, but a player should never assume that an awkward stake will be paid proportionally to the cent.
The official Massachusetts craps and mini-craps rules set out place-bet payouts, buy-bet alternatives, vigorish provisions, working status, and dealer procedure. Local house rules still determine available increments and commission handling.
Come-out status must be explicit
At many tables, place bets are off by default on the come-out roll unless the player calls them working. If they are off:
- a come-out 4 or 10 does not pay the place bet;
- a come-out 7 does not take it;
- the chips remain for the next point cycle.
If the player calls the bet working before the roll, both winning-number and 7-out consequences apply. Electronic and stadium craps may use a screen toggle instead of a verbal call.
“Off” is not the same as removed. A bet can remain on the layout but be inactive. “Take me down” removes the wager and returns the chips. “Same bet,” “press,” and “collect” are settlement instructions after a win, not working-status instructions.
Place versus buy: the commission determines the answer
A buy bet pays true odds of 2 to 1 but charges commission, often called vigorish or vig. On 4 and 10, that can be better than accepting the 9-to-5 place payout.
Consider $20 on the 4.
Place 4 for $20
- win profit: $36;
- lose: $20;
- expected loss per decision: (20\times6.6667%=$1.33).
Buy 4 for $20, $1 commission only on a win
- probability of win: 1/3;
- winning profit after commission: $39;
- loss: $20.
[ EV=\left(\frac13\times39\right)-\left(\frac23\times20\right) =-$0.3333 ]
Relative to the $20 wager, the edge is about 1.67%.
Buy 4 for $20, $1 commission charged regardless of result
If $21 is committed and the $1 is never returned:
[ EV=\left(\frac13\times39\right)-\left(\frac23\times21\right) =-$1 ]
Relative to $21 total outlay, the edge is about 4.76%. This is still lower than the place bet, but the advantage is much smaller.
Commission rounding changes the crossover. A $1 vig on a $5 buy wager is proportionally severe; a $1 vig on $20 is 5%. Some casinos automatically treat 4 and 10 as buy bets above a stated threshold. Others require the player to say “buy.” Read the layout or ask the dealer before betting.
The dedicated buy bets guide covers commission timing and other numbers in more detail.
Place 4 and 10 versus Place 6 and 8
All place bets are not priced alike.
| Bet | Common payout | House edge |
|---|---|---|
| Place 4 or 10 | 9 to 5 | 6.67% |
| Place 5 or 9 | 7 to 5 | 4.00% |
| Place 6 or 8 | 7 to 6 | 1.52% |
The 4 and 10 may feel attractive because a win produces a larger chip movement. The larger payout does not mean better value. It reflects the lower probability, and the 9-to-5 schedule still pays materially below the true 2-to-1 odds.
For a lower-edge place-bet comparison, see Place 6 and Place 8.
Pressing changes stake, not price
After a win, players often press the bet. Suppose a $10 Place 10 wins $18 and the player raises the wager to $20. The next decision still has a 6.67% edge; only the dollar exposure has doubled.
Expected loss per decision changes from:
[ $10\times0.066667=$0.67 ]
to:
[ $20\times0.066667=$1.33 ]
Using winnings does not make the new chips “house money.” Once they belong to the player, they have the same value as the original bankroll.
A regression system, alternating 4 and 10, or covering both numbers also cannot change the payout deficit. If both are placed for $10, total action is $20 and both lose together when 7 appears. The expected loss is the sum of the two negative contracts.
Common payment and procedure errors
Place 4 and 10 disputes usually involve procedure rather than difficult probability:
- the dealer heard “buy” when the player intended “place,” or the reverse;
- the commission timing was not understood;
- a bet was off on the come-out while the player expected it to work;
- an incorrect amount produced a rounded payout;
- a press instruction was unclear;
- a winning bet was returned at 2 to 1 even though it was booked as a place bet, or paid 9 to 5 after it was booked as a buy;
- player-position chips were mixed on a crowded number.
Keep the chips in place and call the error before the next roll. The boxperson or floor should confirm the booked wager, amount, working status, result, payout rule, and any commission. On electronic craps, the accepted-bet screen and transaction log replace the dealer’s verbal booking.
The practical choice
Place 4 and Place 10 are simple wagers with an expensive standard price. Before making one:
- confirm 9-to-5 rather than assuming true odds;
- ask whether 4 and 10 are automatically bought;
- check the buy-bet minimum and commission rounding;
- learn whether vig is charged upfront or only on wins;
- state working or off status before the come-out roll;
- calculate session action rather than judging one payout.
Use the craps odds calculator to verify combinations and the expected-loss calculator to compare repeated action. In most standard conditions, the mathematics is clear: placing 4 or 10 is costly, and a correctly priced buy bet is usually the better version of the same number.